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Is there any way to have a class taught on "how to Polka small"? So many times I get partners that kill me on the floor (especially newbie polka people) who just can't understand the concept of a small polka.
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 9:59 AMThis is a great idea!
I usually use the "turning two-step" (or "flat polka", as I call it) to help stay at
a lower energy level, but this is hard to do sometimes, with some partners.
Another class idea would a fast, controlled redowa. Now that we have a
larger number of people trying to do the redowa at break neck speeds, it
is a good idea to teach how to control the redowa when the tempo gets
faster.
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 10:45 AMI'm afraid that the fundamental problem with this is that nobody goes to classes-that-other-people-need.
The reality of dance is that is that most of us don't know what we do wrong (or we wouldn't do it). So if I offered a class in "How to Polka Small", most people's reaction, from both big & small polka-ers, would be "I don't need that", so the class would tend to consist of the few that have an abstract interest in how dance works, and a few people that were bored that night :-)
Technique classes tend to be hard to get a good attendance for, and so we don't offer them as much as we should.
Suggestions for how to make this work welcome.
Tom
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 11:26 AMI realize this -- I was just hoping that it could happen. I would love to
take more advanced techniques and classes on style, most of which
would probably have miserable attendance in this group.
I am free on Tuesdays now, so if there are FNW classes coming up, I
can even attend. I wonder if there would be any interest in trying to
get some of the more advanced dancers to committ to some series
of classes on these subjects. Even if one was not interested in a
single area, the series as a whole might be very useful. -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 12:22 PMI recall that Anne Remsen taught a series of helpful technique classes on Tuesday nights a while ago for Friday Night Waltz. If Anne or some other instructor was to teach some more advanced technique classes again, I would certainly be interested. In fact, since there seem to be quite a number of rooms available at the Lake Merritt Dance Center (in Oakland) for teaching, perhaps one of the classes offered at the Saturday evening FNW dances could be such an advanced technique or styling class.
Oh, and ... uh ... I confess that I may well be one of the wild polka dancers that fly around the room a bit too big or too fast. (Maybe it's all the Polish blood in me .. :) ) If there is a class on dancing a smaller, more controlled polka, please drag me out there. -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 1:16 PMInstead of calling the class "How to Polka Small", you could just inform people that they will be learning diffrent moves they can do with their polka partner; one of which would be "how to Polka Small or low". I've noticed that if you incorperate, how to do an under arm turn and or side stepping etc. people show up, (including if you get Ann, Jone, or Richard Powers to teach) so they can become more interesting polka partners on the floor. -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 11:41 AMA class like that sounds great to me. Shoot, for a while I wouldn't ask anyone to polka until late in the song because I didn't even have a feel for going into and out of promenade position! :-)
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 5:43 PMTaking you at your word "suggestions for making this work welcome":
How about a "Crowded Hall Survival Technique"? (That makes it sound defensive - how you can be safe -
rather than the dancer having to identify him or herself as part of a problem. That makes it a little more like
a class you need than like one that others need.)
On the general topic of class series that some people think should really happen, but that may not draw enough attendees to break even for FNW, I wonder about advance subscriptions / underwriting. (If I think a class in Malayan cha-cha variations is desperately needed by everyone who goes to FNW, maybe I'd be willing to guarantee $100 for the the hall rent and teacher, and not have to pay all of it if enough paying customers show up. This could generalize to having multiple angels willing to pay enhanced amounts _if necessary_ - or, probably, paying the amount up front and getting refunds if the minimums were met.)
That's a little more admin for you guys, but lets you say "put your money where your mouth is" when you get passionate suggestions. And if the classes are successful, FNW still captures all the upside potential with minimal downside risk. (The major risk I see is that if you get too many subsidized loser classes in a row, you lose your rep as a hip and interesting venue.)
--- Alan -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 11:46 PMIt seems the other way to go, if people wish for a small crowd in the lesson/practice department is to just rent out a dance room at either a ballroom or dance studio - price range $10-35 an hour and practice with each other, perhaps finding a teacher to help out or not. It would be informal and inexpensive with no more then like 6 couples. I don't know about the South Bay, but in the East Bay there are plenty of spaces between Emeryville and Berkeley. -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 9:45 AMI would be very interested in this. As long as it is limited to a smallish group
(6-10 couples) of advanced dancers and we can agree on what to practice.
Of course, this does not address the original topic of this thread, and that is
how to teach the less advanced dancers how to judge when to go all out,
and when not to do so. Polka, redowa, other fast and energetic dances.
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Thu, February 8, 2007 - 1:28 PMTom, if I recall, you ran your CoV class in a small room upstairs at FUMC once. Does this mean the facilities would allow for three classes on Fridays (including a third, small specialty class)? Is the limiting factor finding/affording a teacher? -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 11:14 AMTeachers are one issue. Getting the other room is another. It's not likely to happen at FUMC. If we can get a clear schedule from oakland, we may be able to have an advanced class sometimes, if we can find a teacher.
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Unsu...
Technique classes for those who need them
Fri, April 27, 2007 - 7:23 PM"Suggestions for how to make this work welcome."
False advertising.
Richard teaches a semi-stock class about technique which he calls by some other name (I've forgotten the details), and it usually gets a pretty good attendance. I'm sure that Joan and Anne could come up with deceptive class titles, too.
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 1:57 PMThis is shifting the topic slightly, but as someone potentially in the target audience for Heidi's original post, and having recently joined PADP (People Against Death by Polka), I would really like to find more ways to improve and practice. Something between privates lessons (which I take but are expensive and benefit from focused outside practice) and the 30+ person series classes where bad habits don't get enough attention.
The one-off lessons at FNW are great, and one of those might be enough to address the small polka problem. But if you didn't pick up something well enough in the class, it seems hard to incorporate. I hear this all the time from others in these classes, that they could follow the steps as they were taught, but then can't retain them. I keep thinking a little opportunity to practice specific elements would go a long way. For many kinds of dance (salsa, swing) there are other venues where you can practice and take smaller group lessons, but I'm not aware of many opportunities to practice FNW stuff besides at FNW itself (and PEERS, etc., but they all have the same problem). As much as everyone is welcoming and tolerant of goof-ups, I'm still reluctant to try something when I'm shaky at best on the lead and the follow doesn't know what I'm aiming for, and that's if I can remember the sequence in the midst of traffic in the first place, having just learned it an hour beforehand.
What does it take to run a short series of classes? Would it be feasible/productive to run a couple of small classes concurrently? I'm thinking it might be more cost effective to have, say, a beginner/intermediate practice class and an advanced stylings class in the same hall.
I think maybe even just promoting ways for people to connect up for informal practice might help. I know of at least a couple people that are past the basics but know their technique could use work who would like to get together, probably more than any of us realize. Maybe some sort of sign-up sheet at FNW, or announcements directing people to a forum like this one?
Please don't think that I'm taking teachers for granted here. I know it's time and effort. No sense of entitlement, just hoping for more opportunities to improve. :)
Hod -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Tue, February 6, 2007 - 3:55 PMHi iHod,
I'm in total agreement with you: it would be very helpful to have small class venues where people could practice. I know finding people to practice with one-on-one in the beginning was very helpful – not just to me but my partner(s) as well. I have found that a lot of people have trouble getting things down in a big group setting, not getting the attention they need and/or getting left behind because they couldn't get it down fast enough before the teacher went on. Because of this I always feel put in the position to correct my partners bad habits on the dance floor, to give them the one-on-one attention they missed, and some times it doesn't taking much. This is why I've been thinking about, at some point, giving one-on-one lessons in my living room to people for a fee. Shouldn't I be making money for this, it would beat my current job catering :-).
Thanks for bringing this up. This problem has been on my mind for a long time. And not everyone is fortunate enough to live with a practice partner like my brother Brian, best friend William, and Cousin Dawnya who I've all thought the basic waltz, polka, and Congress of Vienna to. Now if I could just get my Brother Mark dancing... -
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Re: Polka Class wish list
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 10:51 AMI had a weekly series of classes on Tuesdays at the First United Methodist Church. All topics. all classes waltz, polka, one step. everything
Attendance never got above 15. People just did not show up. -
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Unsu...
Re: Polka Class wish list
Wed, February 7, 2007 - 4:38 PMPerhaps making the classes on Fridays a series? -
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Re: Confessions of a beserk polk-er
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 12:35 PMHow sad that people would assume the class doesn't apply to them. On the other hand, in our PC environment where everyone is so cautious about offering constructive criticism, it's sometimes hard to know which annoying habit we're guilty of. I am extremely grateful to the two gentlemen who've pointed out to me that I have a tendency to pull on their left arms. Now I can work on that and be a better partner.
One of the primary reasons I love Richard Powers' classes is that he is constantly reminding people to be good partners. His classes draw crowds at FNW. Why not ask him to hold a technique class next time he teaches? It could be part etiquette lecture, part top 30 habits that bug your partner, and part technique practice where students can practice partnering and are encouraged to offer constructive feedback to their partners. Those who don't want frank feedback shouldn't come. Those who realize that whether you've been dancing for 20 minutes or 20 years you probably have a few areas in need of polish should come and enjoy personalized tips from the person who matters most: their partner.
I think it would also be beneficial to have a general reminder of the basic "rules." In the most recent redowa class there were a lot of people stopping in traffic to work out rough spots. When I asked the teacher where this should be done, he said "anywhere". I'm sure he meant out of traffic, but I thought we'd more or less agreed that the outer-most "lane" is the fast lane. Newcomers won't know this unless we tell them. -
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Re: Confessions of a beserk polk-er
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 11:31 PMI'd love Richard Powers to teach such classes that you have described above. I would certainly make an effort to come. Great idea!
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A Little Perspective
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 9:16 AMI've had my feet trod as often as most, and I find it just as aggravating as anyone. There should be lots of encouragement to attend classes.
But the problem I see that equals that of inexperienced dancers...is arrogance on the part of experienced dancers. People often seem entirely too willing to sneer at or dismiss others less capable, or somehow draw the conclusion that because they are better dancers they have the Gods-given right to drive all others before them.
To those people, I say, with love in my heart:
a) The dance floor is NO ONE's exclusive property. Anyone who pays admission or attends has equal right to be present and to enjoy themselves.
b) Gentle support and encouragement does more to support and produce good dancers than does sneering or dismissive commentary.
c) Social grace seems to me to be at least as often lacking on the dance floor as physical grace. I'd really welcome classes in the former as well as the latter--and I suspect that those most in "need" will skip those classes as often as those needing dance instruction.
It's vastly easier to point out someone else's flaws than to search out one's own. But it produces far less.
Just sayin'. -
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Re: A Little Perspective
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 10:48 AMYes - and that's why I suggested Richard. Somehow he manages to turn out dancers who - realizing they may be more talented than their partners, gracefully compensate for their partners' shortcomings without any indication they are doing so. THAT is someone who's really good. -
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Re: A Little Perspective
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 11:00 AMIt's what I want to be, when I grow up. If. Did I say when? I meant if.
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Re: A Little Perspective
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 10:59 AMHmm. You wouldn't be a teacher, would you? :-)
As Josh said, "gentle support and encouragement", which does NOT mean telling someone what they are doing wrong.
It's really hard, as a dance teacher/organizer, to say anything other than "don't give feedback on the social dance floor", as everyone hears what you say differently, and then turns around and expresses it differently. And if even only a small percentage get the feedback thing wrong, you are going to have an unpleasant place to dance.
Even at the last FNW, I had someone tell me that they heard "You're doing it wrong" from a partner. Needless to say, this is a phrase that should never be heard on the dance floor. (And, of course, I get to try to explain this to that partner, without using the words "you're doing it wrong" :-).
If you feel you have to comment on someone's dancing, find something they are doing right (or improving at), and comment on that. They'll do more of it.
Tom
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Re: Confessions of a beserk polk-er
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 11:07 AMOf course, some want feedback, some don't. The best way to get feedback is to simply ask. That let's your partner know that you are interested in improving.
And, as is often the case, people are hesistant to give feedback, I've found that saying "what's _one_ thing I could work on" makes people feel more comfortable, and allows them to give some feedback, without feeling too critical.
Of course, if someone asks you, this is not an opportunity to tell them everything about them that bothers you. A one suggestion limit here is also a good thing.
Tom
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Re: Confessions of a beserk polk-er
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 12:15 PMI disagree. I correct people all the time on the dance floor. When would these people ever get the one-on-one opportunity they really need to improve? Some of these people have been dancing for quite a while without any correction to let say, how to improve their frame. Most of the time people have said, "Thanks, I wish more people would let me know how I could improve." And then tell me to let them know if there is anything else they could improve on. If I find a partner of mine is a danger on the floor I'll certainly correct him, or try to, like polkaing your partner to death. And like I said before, sometimes it doesn't take much. True you do have to take into account the sensitivity of the situation and not just dance with great dancers all the time, while complaining about how there are people that don't know what to do. How can one learn unless you get them on the dance floor to practice? Even though I will admit I do have my limit of how many beginners I wish to dance with in one night, and how many COV I'm willing to give up to someone who just learned it. I think it helps though to remember that we all stunk when we first started and it was the support of others to get us on the floor - putting up with us that is part of becoming a good dancer in the NOW – it helps a lot when people do give back. -
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Unsu...
Re: Confessions of a beserk polk-er
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 12:30 PMI think it's rude, it makes them feel small. I may say something that makes it more of I need something, like "Could you please take smaller steps?". It doesn't sound like they're dancing WRONG because they're taking large steps, just that I'm small and can't keep up, and then sometimes they'll ask for any other suggestions.
When starting something new the last thing you want to hear multiple times in a night is "You're doing this wrong." it makes it not fun and they generally won't want to come back. I know I still get frustrated at my mom when she says "You're doing this all wrong." when I'm sewing. -
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Re: Confessions of a beserk polk-er
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 1:50 PMThe best instruction I got--and I needed a lot; the world's fastest study, I *wasn't*--all came from people who were patient and encouraging. When I received correction, it was all in the form of "Wow, you're really doing great! Tell you what--try this." More often, I was complimented and reassured, which made me feel comfortable enough to say, "No, really. What can I do better?"
That's my own approach when I dance with less experienced dancers. And though I'm running about average in skill for an event like a PEERS or FNW, there are a great number of folks who seem to value me more highly than that as a partner. Because I work to make my partner feel good about her dancing.
I've been told that I'm a good dance teacher. If that's so, it's because I worry first about making sure my partner is happy to be dancing. Once that's achieved, there's no end to how much someone can and will insist on learning.
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Re: Confessions of a beserk polk-er
Sat, February 10, 2007 - 3:42 PMAs they say, "The right approach is everything." Like I said before, you always have to take into consideration the sensitivity of the situation. I don't recall saying to the people I'm trying to help, even though a few times it might have slipped (I'm not quite sure) 'Your doing this wrong..." as much as saying, "Why don't you give me a little more.." or "try dancing towards me and not side to side", "think of us as dancing as one whole unit instead of as an individual..." "I'll start by back leading you - try to feel the steps through me" for example. In other words starting and ending with what needs or would make it easier - safer to dance with them instead of starting with "you are doing this wrong, this is how you do it right." If anything there's not much time for extra words during a dance so it's best just to get to the main point quickly, right?
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